yes, i sometimes read the blog. i sometimes even comment on posts. but i am not part of their "movement" and neither is my blog. here's why:
- i don't believe that you can reinvent adventism. it is what it is. take it or leave it. its roots run deep and to reinvent would be merely putting lipstick on a pig -- purely cosmetic.
- i believe that if you want to be a part of an organization/denomination/group that better fits your spiritual beliefs, then you should go find one, not reinvent the one that you happen to find yourself in. sorta like the whole gay marriage debate... there's no need to redefine marriage, just go do your thing and call it something else.
- i will go as far to say that the notion of progressive adventism is a farce and a thin veil to mask that these people don't really have the guts to leave an organization that they don't believe is right and true. the whole blog gives these "progressives" an outlet to vent, yet never have to act on their issues with adventism.
- adventism is not a democracy. did the GC give you permission to reinvent anything? what difference are you really making to the "official" adventism.
- i don't believe anyone should try to reform something that the majority of the worldwide membership is very happy with...not just happy, but passionate about.
while i'm at it, here's another challenge for all progressives and disgruntleds alike: search the Scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit's guidance and courage to go where God wants you to go. stop spending your energy trying to fix the system 'cause the system (broken or fixed) won't save you. take hold of that wheel you're trying to reinvent and ride it out to where God can grow you spiritually.
i suspect i won't be the blog of the month for much longer.
Posts
9 comments:
Brilliant illumination of progressive Adventism.
More in this vein here:
http://powerofpride.wordpress.com/2008/11/07/progressive-adventist-tupperware-evangelist-brings-gay-couple-together/
you aren't the blog of the month anymore!
whew! now i can blog about happier things...
You were actually January's blog of the month...with an extension. :-)
Great comments, by the way, I agree with most everything. But not all. Here's my response to your bullet points:
1. It's....a....tiiiitle. I was being catchy three years ago. Kinda like "Girl..."
I do agree with you though, if you're speaking of "Reinventing" the eschatological mission of the church (aka, the Adventists are the "Remnant" stuff). Good luck with that.
2. Yes and no. People are finding their own groups that fit their spiritual beliefs, and that is happening WITHIN Adventism. Look around to all the house churches, social networks and self-sustained, independent ministries where, for the most part, people haven't seen the inside of a traditional church with the bazooka pipe organs staring back at them in years.
3. A farce is a little harsh. You could benefit from a broader definition of "progressive Adventism." They display an open and inclusive attitude towards other Christians and other people. We take our cue from the Gospel. Your perception, however, more accurately describes bitter Adventists, or "ex-Adventists" who go on to form forums and spew angry, anti-Adventist rhetoric on the web. So the issue is not about what's "right" and "true." That's debatable in every circle, whatever your label. It's to help cast Adventism in a positive light, and put into daily practice exactly what you suggested: "Search the Scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit's guidance and courage to go where God wants you to go." Even within Name-Your-Brand Adventism, His grace is sufficient. Some people just have to remember which Master they're serving.
4. Thankfully, progressive Adventists don't need permission from brick and mortar GC generals in navy blue suits. They take their lead from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
What difference are progressive Adventists really making to the "official" Adventism? Are you serious??? There's not enough bandwidth. Let me clue you in to one: did you notice women are pastors now?
5. Too late. It's already happened, and as generation change and the contexts and cultures we live in change, so too will reform happen.
Peace and justice,
Marcel
Moderator, Reinventing the Adventist Wheel
Marcel . . . . I know that we can each see words in different ways - based on our own rose-colored glasses . . .
My concern is this . . .
1. Define remnant - by the way it is in the Bible? But I'm afraid remnant according to Adventism is not Biblical.
2. It is wonderful when people can find their nitch in church - but may I ask what has happened to submitting to the Holy Spirit and going where He chooses . . . Seems a bit meeeeeism to look for where I fit.
3. Define Gospel please? According to your definition it is an open and inclusive attitude to others . . . it seems like it could verge on universalism . . . Hmmm . . . I thought the gospel was about Jesus and the fact that He died in place of us - it is not all inclusive by the way . . . Only those who accept Jesus as both LORD and Saviour will be saved. 1 John 5:11-12. It is a legal transaction in which Jesus paid the price . . . It is Rom. 3:9-18 - where mankind was born spiritually dead - we could not save ourselves PERIOD. The Holy Spirit draws us to Jesus and wakes us up enough to make a decision for or against Jesus.
4. If Progressive Adventists take their que from the indwelling Holy Spirit . . . then tell me could you be saved if you did not keep the Sabbath? Is the Sabbath the "seal" of God? What is the seal of God? If Progressives don't focus on the law - then why keep the Sabbath? Or could it be that Sabbath is obsolete as the scriptures indicate and Jesus truly fulfilled the law and now we rest in Him - Heb. 4
5. I am concerned about Progressive Adventism - because they don't even know what classic Adventism teaches . . . they don't know what they are trying to reinvent . . . Have they researched enough to know what they are reinventing . . . or is it just a cosmetic application to something that is opposite of what scripture teaches - You can not put new wine in old wine skins . . . they will break! You have to put the New Covenant in a new place . . . because if you try to put the New Covenant into the Old Covenant - it don't work. . . .
Marcel I challenge you to read the book of Galatians through each day for the next 30 days asking for the Holy Spirits guidance and you will see that Reinvention don't work . . .
Blessings,
Annonymous
Anonymous, I'd absolutely love to address EVERY point you raised. But first, I'd like to know who I'm writing to and address you by name.
Thanks,
Marcel
Marcel, Ha ha... I think the anonymous poster purposefully wanted to remain anonymous... just a thought.
But since you're up for answering questions, let me just say that overall, I think everything you addressed in your answer to my original post talked about cosmetic issues (house churches, women pastors)...my post was referring to reinventing adventist doctrine (as is outline in your generous adventist orthodoxy page on your blog).
progressives can go on reinventing, reinterpreting the doctrines all day and all night, it doesn't change what adventism is. i wonder how many things you'll choose to reinvent before you figure out that you're no longer sda? i guess it's what george knight calls "cultural adventists" -- people that don't really jive with the doctrines, but enjoy living in the adventist bubble and the haystack potlucks.
Delina,
You call them "cosmetic issues" yet some of those issues are core theological differences debated by Adventist scholars, like women pastors being ordained. I hope you meant the makeup they're wearing on the pulpit! :)
Don't misjudge the title of the blog. Not all progressive Adventists are into tearing down doctrinal walls. Most of them care not to live in the same trenches where the Pharisees reside. I prefer to see them as re-envisioning, challenging and celebrating an Adventism from a different paradigm--one that ends up in Jesus at the very core of their theological (or, if you prefer, "cosmetic") beliefs. If you re-imagine Adventist doctrines in another context, think of Christ expanding the full meaning of the Law to Jews and Gentiles in His day. Our doctrines should point people to "the truth" as being a person, not a set of prescribed fundamentals or rigid rules.
You seem to have a hard time detaching from the perception that every single progressive Adventist has a personal vendetta against "doctrines." We don't. Really. We have much more to do with fighting injustice, calling for equality, and looking after the "least of these" (reflecting Christ in us) than worrying about deleting the Investigative Judgment from the list of 28.
So let me ask you, what are your ties to Adventism? Are you a former?
Peace,
Marcel
So how long did it take you to accept the 1st 2 bullet points. They sound great, but did you always feel that way and what was the turning point that truly made you believe the 1st 2 points. Great post by the way, thanks!
Post a Comment